U.S. – Australia Relations

Interview: Richard Armitage

Washington, D.C. — 16 March 2003

Reporter:
Jana Wendt

He's the U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell's right-hand man, and a formidable diplomat in his own right. A staunch believer in the ANZUS alliance, deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage has been working behind the scenes in a bid to extricate the allies from the deepening crisis over Iraq. Mr Armitage interrupted a day of intense negotiation to talk to Jana Wendt from Washington ...

Jana Wendt

Thank you very much for joining Sunday.

Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State

Good morning, Ms Wendt.

Jana Wendt

The President said unequivocally that a vote would take place at the UN by the end of the week. It has not. What is he waiting for and why is he waiting?

Richard Armitage

Well, he's trying, as I understand it, to explore every diplomatic option. It's one of the reasons that he is meeting with his colleagues, the other co-sponsors of the UK, US, Spanish resolution, to explore those options.

Jana Wendt

But he was pretty blunt. He said we want people to put their hands up by the end of the week. It must be something significant to derail the President in the way that it has done.

Richard Armitage

I don't know that I would use the term derail, Ms. Wendt. It seems to me the President has made the point at every turn that we'd rather not go to war, we'd rather resolve this peacefully, and his colleagues from Spain and Great Britain have decided that they want to have one last meeting to explore diplomatic options.

Jana Wendt

Mr Armitage, to put this a little indelicately, I suppose ... has this got a lot to do with saving Tony Blair's political skin?

Richard Armitage

I think that's a question best directed at Prime Minister Blair. I've been amazed myself at his courage, the courage of his convictions. He's a man, much like your own PM, who says what he believes. He will make decisions on his political skin. This meeting is about trying to resolve this question and exhausting every option before military conflict comes into being.

Jana Wendt

To your knowledge, will this meeting at the Azores canvass the possibility of withdrawing an amended resolution altogether?

Richard Armitage

Well, I notice that they've said they will explore all the diplomatic options and Secretary Powell said to one of our house committees the other day that all options are on the table, including whether to call for a vote. So I'm sure they'll discuss every option.

Jana Wendt

Let me ask you to look into your crystal ball. What do you think -

Richard Armitage

Very dangerous, indeed, Ms Wendt.

Jana Wendt

Well, I will venture it anyway. What are the chances of a resolution authorising military action against Iraq being passed by the United Nations?

Richard Armitage

I don't know. I think you'd have to ask the 15 member nations yourself. We've worked hard to try to garner sufficient votes. This has been in the face of an absolute rejection of stance by France who say no matter what, that they will veto. It occurs to me and some of my colleagues that France is much more designing to constrain the United States than they are in disarming Saddam Hussein.

Jana Wendt

So you think, as the Prime Minister of Australia thinks, that they are not so much interested in moving towards peace in the world as setting themselves up vis-a-vis the United States?

Richard Armitage

I don't think I would put it that way. Mr Howard has already spoken about this matter in a rather riveting speech he gave recently. My own view is that clearly if they say from the beginning that they're going to veto, veto, veto, they're not very interested in trying to explore a diplomatic path.

Jana Wendt

You and Secretary Powell have invested a great deal in persuading President Bush to go to the United Nations on the Iraq issue in the first place. Did you ever anticipate that the process would degenerate into the kind of morass that it is now in?

Richard Armitage

I don't know that we ever thought that we could actually get a 15-0 vote, a unanimous vote to include Syria on Resolution 1441. We always realised that there were difficulties in going to a second resolution, but President Bush, in the face of accusations of being unilateralist, has proved yet again he's a multilateralist and he's trying to resolve things in a multilateral way. I don't make predictions about the future. As Yogi Berrar, our baseball player once said, that's a very difficult thing to do. But Secretary Powell and I come to work every day and work with what we have. And what we have right now is a very difficult situation in the Security Council, and the President and Prime Minister Blair and Mr Aznar of Spain are going to try and resolve it on Sunday evening in the Azores.

Jana Wendt

I use the word morass, and I don't think it's too far wrong. We have a British proposal on the table, we have a Chilean amendment on the table, we have a Canadian plan - when and where is this going to stop?

Richard Armitage

That's a discussion that our betters, my betters at least, will have on Sunday in the Azores. But from our point of view, the plan that matters is the UK, US, Spanish proposal which is on the table.

Jana Wendt

Is there something generally unworthy about the whole process that you're going through here, where competing sides are soliciting votes by offering inducements to weak states?

Richard Armitage

And you have in mind specifically what, Ms Wendt? Who is offering inducements to whom?

Jana Wendt

Is it true that you threaten to reduce Angola's $20 million US dollars in annual aid if they didn't vote your way?

Richard Armitage

Not to my knowledge. In fact I gave a rather large press conference where I made the point that we had relationships and programs of assistance before we entered into the UN Security Council debate. We're going to have those same programs after no matter how people vote.

Jana Wendt

Is it true that you warned Chile that a pending Free Trade Agreement would be delayed if they didn't go your way?

Richard Armitage

No, I publicly said that this has no relation on an FTA. I said that to Chilean newspapers and TV stations.

Jana Wendt

Is it true that you warned Guinea and Cameroon that the US might not support loans they were seeking from international lenders?

Richard Armitage

Not to my knowledge. Was there anybody else offering inducements or so-called punishments?

Jana Wendt

Well, my original question was when competing states are offering inducements.

Richard Armitage

I was wondering what other states you were inclined to mention.

Jana Wendt

Well, from what we read France was very busy on the same circuit. What did Condoleeza Rice mean when she said that you were talking to state about, quote, their interests?

Richard Armitage

Well, we think it's very much in their interests to use the United Nations and the Security Council, and to resolve the great questions of the day. And we think that's very much in the interests of all states. We also think it's very much in the interests of states, whether you're in the Middle East or in Asia, to have a mechanism that can deal with weapons of mass destructions and the like. This is particularly true given that we're facing to some degree a Korean situation now.

Jana Wendt

In Britain, as you know, there is talk of regime change not only in relation to Saddam Hussein, but in relation to Tony Blair. Do you think that the Prime Minister will ultimately commit troops without UN backing?

Richard Armitage

As I understand the parliamentary procedure, the Prime Minister would have to refer the matter to his cabinet and have a discussion probably in Commons, and I'm sure he will do that. He will follow whatever procedures, and I'm sure be guided by the outcome of that discussion. I think it's a little premature for me to sit here in Washington and try and judge what will go on in London.

Jana Wendt

Do you think that it's possible that Mr Blair would not, in the end, commit troops without that UN backing? Do you admit that that may be a possibility?

Richard Armitage

I think that there are all kinds of possibilities. But I would equally admit a very strong possibility that the UK and the United States and some other coalition members, should warfare be necessary, will find each other fighting side by side.

Jana Wendt

You eluded earlier to a speech the Australian Prime Minister made. It was, in effect, Mr Howard's most impassioned speech to date in support of the United States' potion, but the leader of the Labor Party, the alternative government here, called it a day of disgrace for the country. Does it concern you that the alternative government is so contemptuous of the US stand?

Richard Armitage

Well, I don't pretend to be expert in the inner struggle and inner workings of Australian politics, but it seems to me in the opposition there are very voices that one hears. I listened very carefully to what Mr Crean said. I also listened very carefully to the speech I described as riveting that Prime Minister Howard gave the other day, and I thought he was particularly compelling when he noted that if we can't resolve this through the Security Council, what is the implication for Korea, for instance, something that's a little closer to home for some Australians.

Jana Wendt

During the week, senior Australian ministers met with the chairman of the Institute of Strategic Studies in London, Dr Heisbourg. I just want to put to you his expert assessment of the ANZUS Alliance. He said the new America doesn't have permanent alliances, it has partners of convenience. You may believe that you have an alliance with the US, I'm not sure the Americans believe they have an alliance with you. What's your comment, Mr Armitage?

Richard Armitage

Well, I think one might ask an American official what they think about the Alliance, and you'll find from President Bush on down through Secretary Powell, up and down this building and in the Pentagon, that there's no alliance we value more than the Australia/US alliance.

Jana Wendt

How close do you believe we are to an attack on Iraq?

Richard Armitage

I think the window on diplomacy is rapidly closing. That's what Secretary Powell indicated yesterday to our members of Congress. So I would just say - content myself with that statement. I don't think I should go beyond it.

Jana Wendt

Do you think that it would be possible if Saddam were to comply with everything that was being asked of him at this point, would it be possible for the United States and the coalition to pull back from the military brink?

Richard Armitage

Yes.

Jana Wendt

OK, Mr Armitage. I very much appreciate your time today. We'll leave it there.

Richard Armitage

Good morning, Ms Wendt.

ENDS

Original document from sunday.ninemsn.com.au.

Last update Monday, 19 November 2007